Near-Death Experience
Rick Boxx is the CEO and Founder of Unconventional Business Network. UBN is a nonprofit founded in 2001 that has equipped over 400,000 business leaders in integrating their faith and the Bible with their work. Rick has a daily radio and email broadcast called “Integrity Moments” that reaches over 2 million leaders and is featured on over 200 radio stations. He’s authored seven books including “Unconventional Business.” Rick is a former CPA, banker, and multiple time entrepreneur. He resides in Overland Park, Kansas with his lovely and lively wife, Kathy. They have three children and four grandchildren who live in the area.
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-Transcript-
Brad Burrow (00:01):
Welcome to In A World With Real Media. I’m your host, Brad Burrow. In this podcast, we’ll dive into the lives of the most successful people in business. We’ll learn how they overcame adversity, took advantage of opportunities, and learned from their experiences. Learn from our experts, get inspired, then go live your story. It’s in a world with real media. Hello, and welcome to In A World with Real Media. I’m your host, Brad Burrow, and today I have a very special guest, somebody that I’ve known for a long, long time, and been following his work for a lot of years in the faith-based area. And it’s Rick Boxx. He’s the founder and CEO of Unconventional Business Network. So Rick, thanks for being on our podcast. Thanks, Brad.
Rick Boxx (00:50):
Looking
Brad Burrow (00:51):
Forward to it. You’ve been in here for several other podcasts lately, so you’re like a veteran podcast. I’m like, I’m not worthy. I’m not worthy.
Rick Boxx (00:59):
This’ll be fun.
Brad Burrow (01:03):
I followed what you guys have done for a long time, some great events and Bible studies, and actually we’re going to be starting a group here pretty soon. Well, actually, I think it’s the 17th of February. I’m dating our podcast right now. All right. But really excited about getting that going and being a part of this. But I wanted to take a little bit of time and just get to know your background a little bit. Where’d you grow up? Where’d you go to school? Where did the makeup of who you are come from?
Rick Boxx (01:36):
Oh, sure. Yeah. Well, I’m a Kansas City boy. I grew up on the Missouri side out in Grandview.
Brad Burrow (01:42):
Grandview.
Rick Boxx (01:43):
And graduated from Grandview High School and then ultimately went off to Mizzou for college. And when I landed an accounting degree and went to work for one of the large public CPA firms out of college. And so I jumped in. That was an interesting experience because I actually was a December grad. And so I started in January, which is tax season. And so I remember my first day they said-
Brad Burrow (02:12):
Dive right in?
Rick Boxx (02:13):
Yeah. They said, “Well, you need to know it’s mandatory that you work 55 hours a week, but if you don’t work 70, you’re a slacker.”
Brad Burrow (02:21):
Oh
Rick Boxx (02:21):
Man.
Brad Burrow (02:22):
70. That’s huge.
Rick Boxx (02:23):
And that was back when it was also required, at least in our public accounting firm, it was required to wear a three-piece suit.
Brad Burrow (02:30):
Oh, wow.
Rick Boxx (02:31):
And so the world was a little different back then. And so I tried the public accounting thing. After two and a half years, they had handed me my CPA certificate and I realized I just achieved the only goal I had in life and I hated what I was doing. Oh,
Brad Burrow (02:46):
Wow.
Rick Boxx (02:47):
So I’m like, “I’m out. I’ve got to go do something else.”
Brad Burrow (02:50):
Yeah. Yeah. So let’s back up. Grandview. So I grew up in Grandview.
Rick Boxx (02:55):
You did?
Brad Burrow (02:55):
Yeah. So I moved away in high school, but I went to High Grove Elementary.
Rick Boxx (03:00):
Well, so did I.
Brad Burrow (03:01):
So what year did you graduate from high school?
Rick Boxx (03:03):
74.
Brad Burrow (03:04):
Okay.
Rick Boxx (03:04):
Yeah.
Brad Burrow (03:05):
So I was 81.
Rick Boxx (03:06):
Okay.
Brad Burrow (03:07):
So you were a little ahead of me, but Grandview was a different area back then. So I lived … This is funny. I don’t want to get too far into this, but I actually lived two blocks from High Grove Elementary. Okay. So you turn right and go down to Meadowmere. You remember Meadowmere? Yes. Oh yeah. And I would ride my bike to school. I mean, those are some of the most memorable times of my growing up.
Rick Boxx (03:27):
Actually, that’s where my daughter lives now is in Park Hill next to Meadow Mere.
Brad Burrow (03:31):
Oh, is that right? Yeah. Completely different area, but time, but I loved High Grove Elementary right next to the high school.
Rick Boxx (03:39):
Yeah. Well, I was unique in the fact that the year I started school, they cut off the divisions as to what school people went to. And so my neighbor across the street actually went to Khan Elementary, but they bused me across the highway to High Grove.
Brad Burrow (03:58):
Oh, so you were on the other
Rick Boxx (03:59):
Side of the line? Yeah, I was on the west side.
Brad Burrow (04:01):
Yeah. Is that even there anymore? That elementary school?
Rick Boxx (04:04):
High Grove?
Brad Burrow (04:05):
Well, I know High Grove is, but the one on the other side of 71, I feel like one. Butcher Green? Yes. Yeah. Okay. It’s still there. Wow. Those were the days. That’s funny. I had no idea
Rick Boxx (04:18):
Where you were. Yeah, I didn’t know you were from Grovey. That’s
Brad Burrow (04:19):
Cool. Pretty cool. So you grew up in the Kansas City area.
Rick Boxx (04:22):
Yep.
Brad Burrow (04:23):
So what was your faith background like?
Rick Boxx (04:25):
Yeah. So my mother was a strong believer. And so if the church doors were open, I was there. And so I was in church every Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night. Got baptized at eight years old in the first Baptist church of Grandview, Missouri. And looking back, it was mainly to please my mother. And so I really didn’t fully grasp what a personal relationship with Jesus was like. And then at 12 years old, I was introduced by a cousin of mine to the wild side of life, and I kind of went a completely different direction for a lot of years. And so it was really not until I was 31 that the Lord dramatically drugged me back to him through a riptide in Hawaii.
Brad Burrow (05:19):
Oh, is that right?
Rick Boxx (05:19):
Yeah.
Brad Burrow (05:20):
Can you tell that story?
Rick Boxx (05:21):
I can.
Brad Burrow (05:23):
I’m very interested to hear
Rick Boxx (05:24):
That. Yeah. Yeah. So my in- laws took us on vacation to Hawaii and one day I was out boogie boarding with my brother-in-law and we’re with all these surfers and the next minute, all of a sudden I was out in the middle of the ocean all by myself. And I’d gotten sucked into a rip tide that just kept pulling me further and further out to sea. And at the worst- And you had a boogie
Brad Burrow (05:49):
Board?
Rick Boxx (05:50):
And I had a boogie board, but at the worst of it, all I could see was the very, very top of the high rises. So I was probably close to a mile offshore.
Brad Burrow (05:58):
Oh my gosh.
Rick Boxx (05:59):
Wow. And I’m just trying to swim for all I’m worth and I’m not getting anywhere. And so I finally decided I’m going to take this wrist band off so I can push the boogie board in front of me and I can swim unhindered. The minute I did that, this huge wave hit and I watched my board sail off in the distance. Oh man.
(06:16):
And I panicked because I knew I couldn’t survive very long out there and I needed to get to that board. And so as I began to swim for that board, my legs cramped because I’d been mountain bike riding all morning. And so all of a sudden I’m dog paddling just to survive and I’m that far offshore and I’m scared to death. And my wife’s on the shore looking for me with our six month old daughter at the time. And I began racking my brain, how am I going to get out of this? And it dawned on me that the only way I was going to survive is if there was a God and he showed me mercy. And so for the first time in 20 years, I began to pray and whenever I- In the middle
Brad Burrow (06:57):
Of the
Rick Boxx (06:57):
Ocean? Yeah, in the middle of the ocean. And whenever I finally got to the broken stage of wondering who’s going to raise my daughter and who’s going to help my wife, that’s what really broke my heart and that’s what really humbled me to the place to say, okay, God, I knew as a child who you are. I’ve just chosen not to follow you and just really just prayed through kind of repentance and just all that. And the peace of God swept over me. I instantly knew God was real and I didn’t know what was going to happen, but I knew it was going to be okay either way. And then all of a sudden this big wave hit. And this time the wave drove me underwater, summer salting through the ocean, just pushing me. And I’d pop up and I’d get some air and I’d get hit again and it happened again.
(07:44):
After about three times of that, I finally popped up and I could finally see the shore off in the distance and I looked around and I saw a couple of young boys on the surfboard and with the last strength I could muster, I shouted for those two boys and then I slumped in the ocean. And fortunately those two young boys got to me, they fished me out, put me on their board, they paddled me to the beach and they dumped me on the beach and they left me. And my wife eventually found me sprawled out on the beach and the first thing I told her was, “When we get back to Kansas City, we’re going to find a church and we’re going to get right with God.” Is
Brad Burrow (08:17):
That right? Wow. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. So that moment, you knew that was like the turning point for you spiritually.
Rick Boxx (08:29):
And God had prepared the way for me, and this kind of ties into what I do and why I do it today, is eight or nine months before that experience, I was asked to become the chief lending officer of a bank that was in trouble and they had a lot of bad loans. They were hiring me in to clean up the place and turn it around. And at the same time, they brought in a brand new bank president and he was different than any boss I’d ever worked for because every time I’d go in and try and get a decision out of him, he’d quote me a proverb or tell me a paramour and how I could apply it to my problem. And at that stage being a skeptic, I’d walk out shaking my head going, “Did that guy just pull a Bible out on me?
(09:09):
Can he really do that? ”
Brad Burrow (09:10):
What is happening here?
Rick Boxx (09:12):
And I would go and be a loyal guy and go do what he recommended. And I started watching these biblical principles actually work and we really cleaned up and turned that bank around in about half the time that our bosses thought was possible.
Brad Burrow (09:28):
Was that before the Hawaii trip or
Rick Boxx (09:29):
After? Yes.
Brad Burrow (09:30):
Before.
Rick Boxx (09:30):
Yeah.
Brad Burrow (09:31):
So you look back and God was starting to work
Rick Boxx (09:34):
On you. He was planting the seeds in my heart that I would be soft and open by the time he got me in that rip tide. And after the rip tide, then I was ready to go back and tell that bank president, okay, I want to know what else does the Bible teach about business because I’m passionate about business. And so he began helping me understand other things as well about scripture.
Brad Burrow (09:58):
Are you still in touch with that person or are they-
Rick Boxx (10:00):
I am. Yeah. Yeah. He’s been a dear friend and been involved. He actually helped me start the ministry many years ago.
Brad Burrow (10:06):
Awesome. And I see your wife’s involved as well.
Rick Boxx (10:09):
Yeah. Yeah. Kathy leads our prayer ministry and helps a little bit on the development side and that’s been amazing. She has a deep, deep heart for prayer.
Brad Burrow (10:18):
If you don’t mind saying, where was she when the Hawaii trip happened? I mean, spiritually.
Rick Boxx (10:23):
Yeah. She was raised in a, I would say probably a lukewarm Lutheran church and her parents did not model Christianity. They just thought going to church was good enough. And so she really didn’t have much context for Christianity or any of that, but she wasn’t opposed to it either because she had been in the church as a child. And so she didn’t even balk at all whenever I said, “We’re going to go to church.” And so she’s like, “Oh, okay.”
Brad Burrow (10:55):
What did she think when you told her about what just happened to you for however many hours you were out
Rick Boxx (11:00):
There,
Brad Burrow (11:01):
However long that was?
Rick Boxx (11:03):
Well, I mean, she was in the search and rescue mode.
Brad Burrow (11:06):
Oh,
Rick Boxx (11:07):
I bet. And so by the time she found me, she’s like, “Where have you been and why have you done this to me? ” I’m like, “I’m sorry.”
Brad Burrow (11:14):
Didn’t plan for this to happen, did
Rick Boxx (11:15):
You?
Brad Burrow (11:16):
Yeah. Yeah. Does she realize now obviously she does, but that was a moment for both of you probably.
Rick Boxx (11:23):
Yeah. Yeah, it was. I mean, she actually took a picture of my son burnt body coming out of that experience and she’s kept it in a book to remind us. Well,
Brad Burrow (11:34):
It sounds like we need to do a feature film about that. I know a guy. Yeah. So that’s amazing. I had no idea. Yeah. So transition now. So then you go back and you’re learning from this mentor about the biblical, kind of applying biblical principles to business. When did the idea for unconventional business network come? I mean, when did you say, okay, obviously there’s a need.
Rick Boxx (11:58):
Right. Yeah. So after that experience, I really kind of went on a journey, Brad, of trying to find, are there any ministries out there teaching this stuff? Because I was hungry to learn as much as I could. And at that time, really about the only thing that was out that I could find was a guy named Larry Burkett in Atlanta had, at the time it was called Christian Financial Concepts. Even though personal finance was his primary role, he had written a book called Business by the Book. That was a sideline for him. And I plugged in with them and went through a teacher counselor training program and all of that and really was trying to help. But I kept asking them, “Well, what about the business side? Why don’t you do more with that? ” And they really didn’t have much interest in doing much more with that.
(12:51):
And by that time I had left working for that bank president, some family friends had inherited a small community bank and asked if I’d come help them run that. And so I bought into that and we ended up ultimately selling it to one of the major holding companies. And so it was during that transition. I was just praying about, “Okay, God, what do you want me to do next?” And I’d still been on a hunt for, are there any ministries out there? And the Lord just made it really clear to me that you keep asking, “Why isn’t there anybody doing it? That’s what you need to go do. ” And so it was a scary proposition to jump out. Everything
Brad Burrow (13:32):
Stepping out on faith is scary,
Rick Boxx (13:34):
Isn’t it? Yeah. Jumping out and starting something from scratch like that when I didn’t have a clue what it was going to look like, but God was faithful.
Brad Burrow (13:42):
Yeah. One of the things that I wanted to ask you about, the characters in the Bible that really where you’re getting a lot of really good foundational
Rick Boxx (13:51):
Business
Brad Burrow (13:52):
Ideas from or seeing how they did business, who would that be?
Rick Boxx (13:56):
Yeah, I would say Nehemiah has always been my favorite book in the Bible. I think it’s so chock full of the best leadership lessons you could ever learn. Daniel is another great one. And then I spent a ton of time in Proverbs naturally that it’s just full of great wisdom there.
Brad Burrow (14:16):
Little hits.
Rick Boxx (14:17):
Yeah. And then just pulling apart and examining how Jesus led and conducted business as the good shepherd. And so there’s a lot of great wisdom there as well.
Brad Burrow (14:27):
I was at a retreat a couple weeks ago and one of the things that really struck me in the retreat was we talked about Jesus and his relationship with God and how he was in the flesh, but he asked God and wouldn’t speak until like, “What should I hear? What should I hear?” And I think as a business owner, one thing I’ve gleaned, I’d love to get your thoughts on this. It’s like, “Okay, God, what do you want me to do today? Who do I need to talk to today? How do I handle the situation?” And I think as entrepreneurs, we feel like we have to get out there and make things happen instead of asking, what would your response be to that?
Rick Boxx (15:09):
Yeah. I mean, I think it’s always bathing the day in prayer and just trying to get a handle on what God’s agenda is for the day. And I’m as guilty as a lot of people that too many times, my prayers are more about my agenda and God will you bless this. I’m
Brad Burrow (15:26):
Going to do this why don’t you come along with me.
Rick Boxx (15:27):
Yeah. Rather than pausing and saying, “Okay, God, you’re the CEO, what did you have for me to accomplish today?” And then following the Holy Spirit throughout the day as he leads and prompts. And naturally, we all have sometimes drier spells in our faith than others. And so it may not be as easy as it is at other times, but I think it’s the consistency and the faithfulness of being grounded first in God’s word and then in prayer and then following the Holy Spirit will help us kind of get to where we need to be.
Brad Burrow (16:04):
I think business owners and leaders are smart people and so they tend to maybe not think that way. And I’ve been very guilty of that, of just trying to, “I got to make something happen today. I got to wake up and make something happen.” And it’s like, as soon as I get here, I want to get right after that when I should be. All right, let’s spend time together in the morning and then let me get my marching instructions and then go from there. And I think that’s a hard
Rick Boxx (16:36):
Thing. Yeah, I think it’s easy to forget that if we’re actually turning to the fountain of wisdom and seeking God’s input on these big problems that we try and solve in business, then the time spent there is going to save you time on the back end because you won’t make as many mistakes and you won’t be stumbling around for the solution. And so I think we sometimes forget that. And it’s becoming more and more obvious to me that more and more people now are turning to AI. I got a problem, I’ll type it into AI. Well, shouldn’t we be first going to God that has all the answers and AI second maybe, but you really need to pause and say, “Okay, where is the wisdom going to come from?”
Brad Burrow (17:32):
Yeah. Why is that such a hard thing for us? It really is. I mean, it’s a very hard mindset change.
Rick Boxx (17:39):
Yes.
Brad Burrow (17:40):
And I don’t know if that’s just the way our humanness that we are, go out and kill what we eat and-
Rick Boxx (17:45):
Yeah, we want to make things happen.
Brad Burrow (17:47):
Yeah. And Jesus, if he’s the model, he always asks God before … I learned that even more at this retreat, it’s like he asked God about everything and his connection with God was obviously better than anybody’s obviously, but the fact that in the flesh, he’s like wanting to hear that’s the model, right?
Rick Boxx (18:11):
Yes. Yes. So
Brad Burrow (18:12):
We’ve got to do better at that. So transitioning that into … Talk about the vision for UBN. I mean, when you got this idea, it’s like, what was that idea?
Rick Boxx (18:26):
Yeah. Originally it came out of … There’s a passage in Matthew five that Jesus talks about the law, but he’s talking about it first, for those of you who teach against the law, you’ll be known as least in the kingdom of heaven, but for those who practice and teach God’s law and God’s word, you’ll be known as great in the kingdom of heaven. And I remember reading that around the time that I was starting this ministry and really felt like, wouldn’t it be cool to not only be known as great, but to help others to be known as great in the kingdom because they’re actually modeling and living out these principles that God’s given us in scripture and how they conduct business. And so over time, our vision for the ministry has really been we want every business leader to become a Christ-centered catalyst for workplace transformation.
(19:30):
And so if they can actually have such a close relationship with the Lord, they understand their purpose in calling, and then they start to understand the principles that are in scripture, that can give us great wisdom for our business decisions day in and day out, then we just believe that those are the people that are going to transform their workplace because they’re going to love on people, they’re going to do business differently. They’re going to be unconventional business leaders, and that’s going to make a huge difference.
Brad Burrow (20:03):
So the process of transforming a business or leader, that’s not … I mean, it’s a process, right? Right. Absolutely. So how do you handle … The forums, for example, you’ve got all types of different people coming in, different levels of faith, maybe some have no faith. So that’s got to be a challenge from how do I start … Where do I start in the training process? And like if it was just you and me, you’d know where I was and you’d say, “Okay, we’re going to start here.” But you have a group of people, it’s not the same for everybody. How do you overcome that?
Rick Boxx (20:36):
Yeah. One of the tools that we’ve developed that I think helps get a starting point is we have a free leading assessment. It’s a self-assessment tool on our website. And what that does is when people go through that, it kind of bubbles up the strengths and the weaknesses that they may have in their faith journey. And for many, especially if they’ve been what we call compartmentalizers in their life and they really have kept their faith completely out of work, for many of those, the first time they take that assessment, they’re like, “I never thought about doing that. ” And they don’t understand some of the principles and how they might apply and help them actually do business in a better way. And so that’s a kind of a first step that can kind of put-
Brad Burrow (21:24):
Assessment.
Rick Boxx (21:25):
Yeah. It helps at least know where they’re at and then we can help them with other resources that says, “Okay, you were low kind of in this score, here’s some ebooks we have if you just want to do a quick free session, but we also have other deeper dive Bible studies and our forum groups you can get into and different things that can help them go deeper.”
Brad Burrow (21:49):
Yeah. So how has you being involved? So I know, and maybe you can talk about some of the different things that, like you’ve got the forum groups, you’ve got the events, but when you started, how did you start?
Rick Boxx (22:03):
Yeah. Well, whenever I started, I spent a lot of time fasting and praying and journaling, asking God, what is it that you were asking me to do and what’s it supposed to look like? And I still have that document to this day that it’s … I journaled this document that I labeled it, I think, God’s vision for business. And to be quite honest, Brad, it scared me half to death because most of the stuff in there I had never done in my life. Really? Yeah. And I’m like, “You want me to host events?” I’ve never hosted an event. I don’t know how to do that. You want me to have a radio program? I’ve never been on radio. I don’t know how to do that. And so all this stuff was in that original document and at that time I was doing a lot of consulting with businesses and I was doing a lot of counseling as well with companies that were struggling with how do I do this God’s way and glorify God with the challenges I’m faced with.
(23:04):
And so it was a challenge to figure it out, but I was looking for ways that I could go ahead and serve in what I did know. And I just asked God, when it’s time for me to do these great big things that you’re asking me to do that I’ve never done, you’re going to need to bring the resources and the people or the insight for me to know when and how to do that. And God’s been so faithful that he brings just the right people at the right time or the right idea will be just dropped in my lap that I’m like, “Oh, now’s the time I need to do that. ” Do you
Brad Burrow (23:41):
Keep track of all those things?
Rick Boxx (23:44):
I’m a pretty faithful journal and so I have just stacks and stacks of journals and so I can go back and look and see, okay, what was I doing back then? You
Brad Burrow (23:54):
Could build some alters.
Rick Boxx (23:56):
Yes.
Brad Burrow (23:57):
Yeah, that’s right. You have to remember those things. It’s easy to forget when God does stuff in your life, isn’t it? Oh yeah. It’s very easy to, “Oh yeah, I remember that. ” And if you’re really paying attention, it happens weekly.
Rick Boxx (24:10):
Yes. Oh yeah.
Brad Burrow (24:11):
I think it does.
Rick Boxx (24:12):
For
Brad Burrow (24:13):
Me, it’s like, oh my gosh, look
Rick Boxx (24:15):
What we did. Actually, I think we had this idea a long time ago, but have you ever heard of shadow boxes? I’ve heard of it. Where you put mementos in a little box. We used to have one in our home to remind us and the kids, every time God did something very significant in our family life, we would put a little memento in there and it was a great reminder. And I remember asking my wife to pull one together for the ministry, but we don’t have one, so I guess it never happened. And
Brad Burrow (24:45):
Then you go back and look and say, “Oh yeah, I remember that. I remember that. ” Yeah, that’s a great idea. One thing I was going to ask you about too is I’ve kind of gone back and forth over the years being … I became a Christian in 99. I started real media in 97, and so I was a new Christian, didn’t really understand much. So through the years I’ve kind of gone back and forth on how do I live out my faith at work and do I do it by showing that people observing how I handle things or do I really go out in front and say, “I am a Christian, you’re going to be working for a Christian.” We used to pray at our meetings and all kinds of stuff like that. What’s your take on that? I mean, I don’t know the right answer to that.
(25:34):
I’m really curious to, how out front do you go with your faith?
Rick Boxx (25:39):
Yeah, that’s a common issue and struggle I think that everybody has. And I do think that there’s not a black and white answer. I do think that God calls us all to different … Some of us are good evangelists, some of us are better disciplers. We’re all called to do both, but some are just better at one thing over another. And so I think it’s prayerfully considering how God’s wired us, what he wants us to do. But in saying that, I also caution people that scripture’s pretty clear that we’re supposed to do everything for the glory of God. And sometimes I think people take it to the extremes of, “Well, I’ll just be a great guy and do nice things and people someday will figure out I’m a Christian.” Well, if you don’t ever give God the glory at all, ever, you’re just a nice guy.
(26:34):
And so I think there has to be a place and a time that you actually bring the boldness of saying, “That’s all because of God.” And there’s a lot of different ways to do that, but I think that at some point it has to be done or otherwise everybody around you just thinks you’re a nice guy, has no clue.
Brad Burrow (26:57):
Right. So back to the ask God, right? You got to ask God what you’re supposed to be doing. And that’s really what we need to get into that, to the rhythm of doing that. I’ve even had people say, “Well, you can’t hire people that aren’t of faith and stuff like that. And I don’t think that’s right for us.” But making sure, I always make sure people know where we stand, this is who we are, this is the environment you’re going to
Rick Boxx (27:25):
Be in,
Brad Burrow (27:25):
But it’s
Rick Boxx (27:27):
Important.
Brad Burrow (27:27):
I’m open to, maybe there’s a different way.
Rick Boxx (27:30):
No, I mean, I think there’s some Christians in business that they like to hire non-believers. I mean, actually I was just speaking with a friend of mine last night that it was interesting, and this is an incredible story. Are you familiar with Coca-Cola Bottling, not the parent company, but the bottling company? Yeah. They are one of the only, that I know of, one of the only publicly traded companies that if you go look at their mission statement on their website, they are there to glorify God. And they have a friend of mine is the chief culture officer, and he just told me last night, he said, “Rick, in 2025, we averaged 317 salvations a month at our manufacturing plants.” Wow. He said, “We now have prayer groups and Bible studies in every single one of our 105 plants.” And he said, “We are all in on just trying to make sure that our people know that they’re loved and cherished.” And he said, “And we literally pray every month.” He said, “Because we hire…” I think he said, I forget how many hundreds of people they hire a month.
(28:43):
He said, “We pray that all of them are non-believers when they come so that we have a ripe field
(28:49):
To harvest.”
Brad Burrow (28:50):
Amazing. Is he going to come speak at one of the events?
Rick Boxx (28:53):
He has in the past.
Brad Burrow (28:55):
I
Rick Boxx (28:55):
Need to get him back.
Brad Burrow (28:56):
Yeah, that’s amazing. So this seems like an obvious question, but why faith is important at work?
Rick Boxx (29:04):
Yeah.
Brad Burrow (29:04):
Yeah.
Rick Boxx (29:05):
I think a lot of people do compartmentalize their life and they’ve been brainwashed with the separation of church and state kind of concept, and therefore they don’t want to scare off customers. We can come up with millions of reasons, excuses as to why we don’t want to incorporate our faith, but the reality is, is if we truly are followers of Jesus, we’re supposed to be all in. We’re supposed to help people discover who Jesus is and model and live that. And we can’t do that. I mean, like Hebrews 11 talks about, without faith, it’s impossible to please God. And so we have to have faith and we have to integrate it in and it may be done differently for different people, but it still needs to be done. And unfortunately, way too many people just try and check that off to the … Side. And another argument for it that I’ve always contended is almost every business leader I’ve ever met claim they would like to have an ethical workplace.
(30:11):
But how do you have an ethical workplace if you tell your employees to check their faith at the door when their faith is usually where their morals came from?
Brad Burrow (30:18):
Yeah, right.
Rick Boxx (30:20):
So it’s never made any sense to me. Well, why would you set that aside if you truly do want an ethical
Brad Burrow (30:26):
Company?
Rick Boxx (30:27):
It’s not
Brad Burrow (30:27):
Going to be a great workplace if you can’t.
Rick Boxx (30:29):
I
Brad Burrow (30:29):
Mean, that’s not a workplace I want to be a part of.
Rick Boxx (30:31):
That’s right. Yeah.
Brad Burrow (30:32):
Yeah. So we’ve talked about some of the other things, integrating their faith in work and business leaders. I mean, I think that’s probably a good transition to the forum groups. Yeah. So talk about the forum groups. I’m starting one as we discussed and I’m excited about that. But talk about what it is and it feels like it’s boots on the ground for transformation. Is that right?
Rick Boxx (31:01):
Yeah. We felt like people learn oftentimes best in community with others because then there’s a degree of accountability. There’s listening to other people’s vantage points to help you actually shape, well, how am I going to do this? Yeah. And so we wanted to provide content and a platform for people to actually learn how does the Bible really apply to my business life. And so the forum groups are designed for business leaders regardless of what level they may be at. Some of them are CEOs, but many of them may be manager levels or professionals, whatever. And so we’ve devised our content that we have video, high quality video training content that every month there’s either an interview or a talk that will share insight. And so we built a track that the first year is really leadership development. So you got to work on yourself first.
(32:05):
And so we help people do that. The second year is really about transforming your workplace. So we want to make that very practical. So we talk about things like, okay, what would the Bible look like if you applied it to your sales department? What would it look like in finance, et cetera? Yeah. And so we help people with that. And then the third year’s curriculum is really around impacting your community for Christ. So now that I have this, I’m transforming my workplace, how do I shine that light to civic activities around me, community things going on, maybe my trade association. I get more involved in all those kinds of things. And so the forum is designed to do over a breakfast or a lunch and the format is pretty simple. Usually there’s about 20, 25 minutes of networking and conversation and getting to know each other and what their work life is all about.
(33:01):
And then 15 to 20 minute video teaching. And then we devise discussion questions for the group leader. So then you have some discussion time. And then we also believe it’s important for the community’s sake to have a time at the end for prayer. And so we’ll take prayer requests and let people pray for each other and just try and build some community there. And so it’s a simple format. So it’s very scalable and we’ve been able to scale it all the way to Uganda and Mexico and
(33:32):
All kinds of places.
Brad Burrow (33:34):
I would imagine that the groups get pretty tight.
Rick Boxx (33:38):
Yeah.
Brad Burrow (33:38):
Do you see that as like-
Rick Boxx (33:39):
Yeah, some of them do. Now some groups occasionally you see kind of people come and go and so new faces may show up. And so some of those groups may be a little harder to go as deep as some of the others, but then you have those groups that are consistently the same people and those really get where you can go pretty deep.
Brad Burrow (33:58):
So I’ve been in several types of groups. CEO Roundtable was one
Rick Boxx (34:02):
Of them
Brad Burrow (34:03):
That, I don’t know, do you remember Jim Fordyce
Rick Boxx (34:06):
By chance? Yeah, he’s good friend.
Brad Burrow (34:07):
Yeah. So he helped start that. So I was in that for five or six years and we did have a really tight group of guys. I wrote down safety and a multitude of counselors and it was great to be able to go in with people that had experience. A lot of those guys were older than me and had been through things. And there’s something comforting about when you’re going through something and somebody else has gone through it and says, “Let me tell you kind of how this is going to work.”
Rick Boxx (34:38):
Yes.
Brad Burrow (34:39):
And that’s kind of what I feel like the forums could be too.
Rick Boxx (34:43):
Yeah. You get the opportunity to hear other people’s experiences and perspective and that’s always helpful.
Brad Burrow (34:49):
Yeah. So I’m excited about getting that going. Yeah.
Rick Boxx (34:53):
Thanks for doing that.
Brad Burrow (34:53):
Let’s talk about the events. So I think it’s funny that you were to, how am I going to do an event? Lord, that’s kind of how, when I started getting in film production, it’s like, you want me to make a feature film? Okay. That was the same thing, but it’s like, he can do it. Yes. And so tell me about the events side of what UBN does.
Rick Boxx (35:12):
Yeah. So we’ve been doing events since 2002, and so we’ve served over 25,000 people at our events, and it’s been incredible opportunity. And it accomplishes a few things. Mainly, we have two different kinds of events. We have what we call our City Connect events. Those are kind of local community over a lunch type thing that helps build kind of a Christian business community that they can come and see each other on a regular basis.
Brad Burrow (35:45):
How often do those happen?
Rick Boxx (35:47):
Those happen three times a year typically. And then the other event is our Faith Incorporated event, and that’s our national conference that we do the end of April, that people come in from all around the country for that.
Brad Burrow (35:59):
You’ve had some great, great speakers at that.
Rick Boxx (36:01):
Yeah. Yeah. We’ve had a lot of great speakers. I actually was making up a list today of some of the top speakers we had
Brad Burrow (36:07):
For
Rick Boxx (36:08):
Our website. We’ve had people like Phil Visher that started VeggieTales. We’ve had Anne Beiler that started Auntie Anne’s Pretzels. We’ve had Alex Kendrick from the Kendrick Brothers movie production company and just Steve Green from Hobby Lobby and just on and on it goes. And so we’ve been blessed to have just some amazing people that have come and spoken at our events for years. So what happens at
Brad Burrow (36:37):
One of those events? Is it basically a full day of just speakers or … Tell me what that’s like.
Rick Boxx (36:42):
Yeah. Well, the City Connects are pretty simplistic. That one is just a luncheon event where we gather with a few hundred Christian business leaders and we always have a national keynote speaker that comes in. We’ll also do a business spotlight on a business locally. Oh, really? Because we think it’s helpful. Because I’ve heard over the years, too many people say, “Oh yeah, I can’t do that. That guy’s a national guy and he’s real big and he’s done this. ” Yeah, that doesn’t fit me. But if we put a local small business on the stage and then they don’t have any more excuses, they’re like, “Well, that guy did it. You can do it too.” And so we try and do that for those events. And so that’s a lot of fun, but it’s just a short lunch and time event. But the Faith Incorporated event is our basically day and a half conference that we have great speakers that come in.
(37:38):
And I would say there’s a little distinctive difference between what we’re trying to accomplish between the two. So the city connects,
(37:49):
About 30% of our audience are first time attendees that sponsors invited. And so many of those people have no clue why they’re there, how they got there, and they don’t have any perspective on what we’re talking about typically. For them, they need to hear that God has a purpose for them vocationally. And the best way they can hear that usually is to have somebody on stage that talks about, “I caught it. God, this would happen to me. Let me know. This is what happened to me. This is how I integrated it into my business, and this is kind of the result.” And so we really use that as a platform to help people engage with their purpose. But at Faith Incorporated, that’s a bigger commitment of time and money for people to come to that event. And so it’s going to be people that are fairly serious about their faith.
(38:45):
And so for them, we really want to feed them and nourish them with the word of God, with great teachers that bring a perspective to a lot of different subjects that they may have to struggle with in business. And so we just have a lot of great panelists and speakers and just opportunity for people to meet other like- minded people from around the country that they can connect with as well. And so it’s just a powerful day of … And I love the name we came up with it for a long time ago was Faith Incorporated. And so even whenever we talk about the topics, like, okay, faith incorporated in your calling, faith incorporated in your decision making, faith incorporated in building trust in your organization. So how does faith fill in in all those different areas?
Brad Burrow (39:41):
Well, and my mind went to Faith Inc, the business.
Rick Boxx (39:45):
Yes,
Brad Burrow (39:45):
That’s right. That is a great name for that. So talk about … Well, one thing I was going to ask you, I bet you’ve seen some people that have been pretty transformed from some of those events, right?
Rick Boxx (40:00):
Yeah. I mean,
Brad Burrow (40:00):
Can you talk about any of those?
Rick Boxx (40:01):
Yeah. It’s been fun to see, and it usually happens over time. So I remember a guy that told me that he was invited by a sponsor to come to one of our events. He owned an engineering firm and he said, he later told me all this, he said, the context was, he said, “I always went to church, but he said church was always a business development exercise for me. ” And he said, until he said, “I actually got a DUI
(40:37):
One day.” And he said, “It rocked my world and I started realizing I need to figure this faith thing out. ” And he said, “It was right after that, that somebody invites me to one of your events.” Wow. And he said, “And I’ve got this engineering company.” And he said, “I never once in my life considered that God gave a hoot about that business.” He said, “Until I came to one of your events.” And he said, and the speaker just, he said, “I just felt like he was putting a spotlight on me. ” And he said, “I went away saying, okay, if God cares about my business, then I need to be running it differently, but how do I do that? ” And so then he plugged into a Bible study that I led and out of that Bible study, he later told me, he said, “I realized from that Bible study that God was calling me to be a shepherd over my people and I knew I was a tyrant.”
Brad Burrow (41:33):
Wow. And
Rick Boxx (41:33):
He said, “So I went back and started changing my behavior and how I led my people. ” And he said, “I’ll never forget, I had a guy that came into my office that worked for me, shut the door and he goes, What’s going on? You’ve been too nice to me lately. You’ve never been nice. Something’s up. Oh my gosh. And he said, I was able to share the gospel with him and tell him how it was transforming my life. Wow. And then he really went on a journey of saying, business leaders in my community needs to know that. So he took one of our studies and he led a bunch of people through that own businesses locally through the-
Brad Burrow (42:10):
I hope you’ve done a testimonial with him. If not, we need to share this.
Rick Boxx (42:14):
We need to do one.That’s
Brad Burrow (42:15):
An incredible story. Yes, we do.
Rick Boxx (42:16):
We need to
Brad Burrow (42:17):
Do one. Yeah. I mean, that’s exactly what you’re trying to accomplish right there. And when you’re changing culture from the top down of it, I’m sure it was a sizable company, think of how many people’s lives were changed from that. And then it just- Yeah, because it ripples
Rick Boxx (42:30):
Down to families
Brad Burrow (42:31):
As well. Right, right. Yeah. That’s amazing. What’s the future of UBN look like? Do you have big ideas and kind of like the ideas that when you wrote down, do you have big ideas you’re shooting for?
Rick Boxx (42:42):
Yeah. One of the big ones that we’ve been working on for quite some time is, we’ve had a vision of what if we were able to equip over a million business leaders with principles from God’s word. And so we’ve been tracking and chasing that for a long time. And our goal is for us to accomplish that by the end of 2027. And we just passed, I think about 735,000 and so we’ve got a ways to go, but yet it’s going at a faster clip than it used to.
Brad Burrow (43:19):
They call it a big audacious goal, right?
Rick Boxx (43:21):
Yes. Yes. And so yeah, that’s been cool. And kind of a big milestone for us that happened just last Saturday actually was, if you’re familiar with the YouVersion Bible app that many people have on their phone, they have tons of reading plans.
Brad Burrow (43:39):
Yeah, I’ve
Rick Boxx (43:39):
Done much of those. And I have about 95 reading plans on there for business leaders that they had asked me to submit. And last Saturday, we turned over the mark of 500,000 subscribers to our reading plans- No
Brad Burrow (43:55):
Kidding.
Rick Boxx (43:55):
That’s amazing. … just through that one app alone. And so that’s been pretty remarkable. So
Brad Burrow (44:00):
My wife and I went to Life Church for seven years. We’re at a radiant church now, but we were at Life Church for seven years. So very known a lot about what’s happened with the app and they’re always talking about it and giving that away and all that stuff. But
Rick Boxx (44:16):
The
Brad Burrow (44:17):
Bible plans on there are amazing.
Rick Boxx (44:19):
Yeah, it’s been incredible. I mean, they just celebrated one billion downloads that I got to go to their celebration last time. Did you go
Brad Burrow (44:27):
Down and meet Craig and all that stuff?
Rick Boxx (44:29):
Yeah, it was amazing. Do
Brad Burrow (44:30):
You know Bobby, the guy that started the app?
Rick Boxx (44:33):
I got to hear him speak a couple of times when I was down there as one of their creators.
Brad Burrow (44:37):
Yeah, that’s amazing what they’ve accomplished with that thing. That’s how a lot of people are reading their Bible. And the funny thing, so this event that I went to, this retreat, no electronic devices. And so I actually took my Bible and I haven’t opened up my Bible like that for years. It was fun to be able to go through and find verses like felt a little old school, but instead of having your phone, kind of an interesting thing. So that’s awesome. The last thing, how can people … Well, two things I want to hit. If somebody wanted to sponsor one of the events, how would that happen?
Rick Boxx (45:18):
Yeah. So on our website, unconventionalbusiness.org, we have different sponsor packages and especially for the Faith Incorporated event. I mean, if you want to have some exposure nationally to a Christian business audience, or if you just really believe in the cause and want to help other business leaders really gain understanding into how to live out their faith more fluently in their work, then we would love to have you as a corporate sponsor. And so there’s different packages, different sizes that people can plug in and do that. And they
Brad Burrow (45:51):
Would just reach out on the website to do that. Yeah. And then joining groups, how do people sign up? How do they get involved in groups? I’m interested in that because I’m starting my group right now.
Rick Boxx (46:03):
Yeah. Well, once again, on our website, we actually list all of the states and countries that we have groups in and the days of the month and the times that they are meeting. And then there’s a place that people can sign up and say, “I’d be interested in that group.” And so, I lead a group at our church as well. And so I just got to sign up the other day of somebody that went on our website and said, “Well, that’s the closest one to me. ” And they don’t even go to our church, but he was interested in attending, which is great. And our church loves it because we brought in some new people to the church just because they’re coming to visit one of our forum groups.
Brad Burrow (46:44):
Yeah. I’m really excited to have a group here too. I think it’s going to be a lot of fun. And there was actually, I was going to join a group and there wasn’t one in this area. So Danny’s like, “Would you? ” I’m like, “Yes, let’s do it. ” That’s
Rick Boxx (47:00):
Awesome.
Brad Burrow (47:00):
Anyway, I appreciate you doing it. Any final thoughts before we wrap up? Our call to arms, our charge.
Rick Boxx (47:09):
Yeah. I mean, I just want to encourage people that in business oftentimes, especially at a CEO level, you oftentimes feel alone and you feel like you’re- Well, that’s very true. … challenged with so much decisions that have to be made and it’s easy to think that you’re trapped in doing all that on your own, but God has a plan and a purpose for each one of us vocationally and he’s also got the best business guidebook we’ll ever find in scripture, but very few people actually ever pick it up and read it from the lens of a business person. And so we desire to help people understand what are these principles, how do we apply it? And so if we can be of assistance, we have lots of free resources, lots of opportunities for people. And if you’re ready to go deeper, I’d encourage people to check out our Faith Incorporated event the end of April.
(48:07):
It’s a great event with some wonderful speakers that I think people would be very encouraged by.
Brad Burrow (48:12):
Can you talk about who’s coming this year?
Rick Boxx (48:15):
Yeah. Yeah. We’ve got a few different people. We’ve got David Horsager is CEO of TrustEd leadership. He does a great job of talking about building trust in the organization, which is the foundation of commerce in business. We’ve got Scott McLellan. He’s a entrepreneurial guy that has built several multi-billion dollar healthcare organizations. He’s also on the board of Blackaby Ministries International, so he’s a very solid grounded biblical guy as well.
Brad Burrow (48:53):
Did you bring Henry Blackaby here one time?
Rick Boxx (48:55):
Yeah. Yeah. We had Henry-
Brad Burrow (48:56):
I remember that.
Rick Boxx (48:57):
Yeah. Henry and his son, Richard, have both been here over the years and we’ve got Bo Johnson. Bo is, he’s with the Patrick Lencioni’s table group and has written some books and he also was COO of Andy Stanley’s organization at one time. And then Jack Briggs is a retired major general that we’ll be talking about decision making, weaving faith into how you actually make the big decisions that we have to make at times. Life changing decisions. And we’ll have some more speakers as well. So yeah, it’s a great lineup of people that will just really help us go. And
Brad Burrow (49:38):
When is the event again?
Rick Boxx (49:39):
Yeah, it’s April 28th and 29th. And yeah, it starts as a kickoff dinner on the 28th and then all day on the 29th.
Brad Burrow (49:49):
And where is the
Rick Boxx (49:49):
Event? It’s at the Olathe Conference Center in Olathe, Kansas. Okay. Yeah, here in the Kansas City area.
Brad Burrow (49:54):
Okay. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on. So every guest, I don’t know if you’ve seen any of our podcasts, but I have, it’s called In a World with Real Media. So we do a movie voice. And so I’m going to ask you to do the, you got to get really close to Micah in a world with real media. And this could be your break into the voiceover world.
Rick Boxx (50:16):
Okay.
Brad Burrow (50:17):
I mean, if you want to, if you don’t. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But the key is you got to get really close and like get kind of low in area and say, “In a world with real
Rick Boxx (50:26):
Media.” In a world with real media.
Brad Burrow (50:31):
You might need to get an agent now. All right. Well, that’s going to go out on all the social media networks now. You know that, right? Awesome. No, we won’t do that to you. Well, thanks so much for being on, Rick. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for letting us be a part of you being and we’re excited to be moving forward with you. So that’s really awesome.
Rick Boxx (50:52):
That’s cool.
Brad Burrow (50:52):
Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Be sure to share this with any business leader that’s thinking about getting involving faith in their work. Well, every business leader needs it, honestly, but share, tell people about it, comment, like all that stuff so we can get these messages out and get people on board with getting faith involved in their businesses. So we appreciate it and we’ll see you on the next one. This has been in a world with Real Media. Thanks for joining us and be sure to subscribe on iTunes and follow Real Media on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, so you never miss an episode.